Mr. William Shakespeare’s Comedies, Tragedies, and … Mysteries! An Interview with Ron Destro, author of ‘The Starre, The Moone, The Sunne’
Ron Destro is a Kennedy Center award-winning playwright, was named a Top Ten director by Time Out Magazine (London), and is an actor and teacher who has staged over 100 plays and more than 40 Shakespeare productions in New York, London, Stratford-upon-Avon, Italy and France. He is the founding director of the New York-based Oxford Shakespeare Company, which offers professional masterclasses and trains actors to present Shakespeare plays in London and Stratford-upon-Avon, as well as in their original settings, such as at Elsinore, Birnam Wood, Bosworth Field, Flint Castle, Venice, and Azincourt. Ron attended the Marymount Royal Academy of Dramatic Art Program in London, and the USC School of Drama. He is now the author of the award-winning novel The Starre, The Moone, The Sunne:
“What if everything you thought you knew about William Shakespeare was a lie to protect the very crown of England? That is the premise of my shortlisted historical detective story, THE STARRE THE MOONE, THE SUNNE.
In 1624 London, a brave printer is executed, a portly poet is kidnapped, a Stratford-upon-Avon grave is emptied, King James is put into a panic, many swashes are buckled, and things are never what they appear to be, all because brave Nicholas and beautiful Valentina are about to discover and reveal the true identity of "William Shake-speare." This is a timely tale that touches on the powerful love of fathers, the perils of the plague, the joys of turnips, and the mysterious life and tragic death of the Bard of Avon.” The reviews rave:
“All the mystery and suspense of Harry Potter and even more substance.”
- William Niederkorn, NY Times, Brooklyn Rail
“Marvelously amusing, deeply passionate, and brilliantly entertaining.”
- Steve Cuden, co-creator, Jekyll & Hyde The Musical
“So vibrant, so ‘Shakespearean’ in its storytelling, language and humor.”
-Robin Maxwell, The Secret Diary of Anne Boleyn
“Poetic, humorous, shockingly original.”
- Malcolm McKay, Shakespeare’s Globe, RADA
Maria McNair spoke with Mr. Destro about his new book in October 2023. This transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
Maria: Can you start by telling us a little about yourself and your connection to Shakespeare through your career?
Ron: I started acting Shakespeare at university and then went on to study on an American program at the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art in London. I created the nonprofit Oxford Shakespeare Company, which is a summer theater and training program, and where we've done over 40 Shakespeare productions in their historic settings. And we also conduct numerous masterclasses with the world's leading Shakespeareans: Derek Jacobi, Glenda Jackson, F. Murray Abraham, Diana Rigg. And what was wonderful, a couple of years ago, those workshops were transcribed into a book called The Shakespeare Masterclasses so that people who weren't able to attend the masterclass could learn from all those wonderful Shakespearean artists.
Maria: So, without giving too much away, can you tell us about the plot or premise of your new book?
Ron: It's 1604 London. A brave printer is executed by King James for attempting to print a dangerous pamphlet. The printer's young son, Nicholas, spends the next 20 years trying to discover why his father was killed, and, through scraps of burnt fragments resulting from a fire in his print shop, he learns that his father's pamphlet intended to reveal the story of William Shakespeare. So, with the help of our narrator, the lovable, portly poet, Arthur Taverner, and Nicholas's dear friend, Valentina, they set out to find the truth. But soon Arthur is kidnapped, a Stratford-upon-Avon grave is emptied, King James is put into a panic, many swashes are buckled, and things are never as they seem, all because they are about to discover and reveal the true identity of William Shakespeare. So, it's a tale that touches on the powerful love of fathers, the perils of the plague, the joys of turnips, and the mysterious life and tragic death of the Bard of Avon. It is a mostly, in inverted quotes, mostly true story filled with suspense and humor. And most of it is true, by the way.
Maria: What real historical figures can readers look forward to encountering [in the book]?
Ron: We have Will Shaksper and his wife, Anne Hathaway, in Stratford-upon-Avon. We have Queen Elizabeth, Robert Dudley, Lord Burghley, Robert Cecil, the Earls of Southampton and Oxford, King James, Anthony Munday, John Lyly, Sir Philip Sidney, and Christopher Hatton.
Maria: And were there any other particular historical moments or events or stories that you particularly enjoyed getting to visit and weave in?
Ron: It’s interesting, because researching the period, I discovered some interesting things I didn't know, one of which was that Queen Elizabeth had the power to take any young lad in the kingdom and turn him into a soldier or a sailor and enlist him in the army, so to speak. But I didn't realize she also had the power to take young boys for her private choir and sing for her. So there was a rather famous story at the time of a young boy who was taken, and his father was so devastated that he sued the Crown to get the boy back, and he found a very unique loophole in the permission given to take him. And so I incorporated that story in the book because I really think it's a story of fathers and sons. And I think the only reason we don't know the full story of Shakespeare is because of his son and a sacrifice that was made. I don’t want to give too much away, because that's one of the many spoilers in the book, but I think the story of fathers and sons is very important to the story of Shakespeare and who the real Shakespeare was … I couldn't have written [the book] without having my own terrific son, Nicholas. So much of him and our relationship is in the book as well.
Maria: What is it about Shakespeare's life, as we know it today, that lends itself to the mystery genre, and what inspired you to create this novel in this form?
Ron: First, I'd like to emphasize that I set out to write primarily a murder mystery, and the story of Shakespeare just happens to be revealed in the solving of it. But … the thing that lends this Shakespeare story to mystery is the fact that so little is known about the biography of William Shakespeare … whoever Shakespeare was, he was passionate about the Crown, about the inner workings of the court, about noblemen, and kings and queens … So, the real-life story is a mystery, in and of itself … my inspiration number one is to give the right man credit for giving us the greatest works ever. And my other inspiration is my terrific son. That's why I wanted to write this.
Maria: So, you mentioned that you originally set out to write a murder mystery. Does that happen to be a particular genre that you enjoy reading also?
Ron: I just like to read good books … I remember seeing Shakespeare in Love years ago, and I came out of there thinking, “You know, this is a great movie … because it's just a good romantic comedy.” And so when I was thinking about writing about who Shakespeare was – this mystery – I thought, “Well, it is a mystery, so why not make it a murder mystery?” … Because if a printer did reveal secrets, if this involved the nobility and the Queen, which I think this does, I don't think this is a literary mystery. I think … that is a political mystery. Shakespeare's plays are political, and he caricatured people like Lord Burghley and Robert Cecil, the two most powerful men in England. And how could a playwright get away with writing Hamlet, for example, which is clearly about making fun and ridiculing Lord Burghley and then killing him on stage? Only an allowed fool could get away with such a thing. Because Queen Elizabeth was a dictator. She chopped off writers’ hands, threw them in prison. And so it was a very dangerous thing, writing. So you had to be very careful what you wrote. It just seemed to me that that a murder mystery made sense, because if a printer had revealed anything about who the real author of, particularly the Shakespeare sonnets, was, they would be beheaded. Talk about chutzpah. Shakespeare writes a story about Richard III and he makes him very evil, which historically was not necessarily true – we don't really know how evil he was – but the Renaissance belief was not that he was terribly evil. We don't know what he did, if he had anything to do with the princes in the tower, but also, he had mild scoliosis. He was not a hunchback, but by Shakespeare creating this evil, powerful hunchback walking out on an Elizabethan stage, the only thing an Elizabethan audience would have thought was, “This is Robert Cecil,” because Robert Cecil was a humpback. And so, it would have been very dangerous for any writer to portray a humpback on stage.
Maria: Why do you think our knowledge or beliefs about the plays’ real, historical author matters for our experience of the plays … in the 21st century?
Ron: I've found that to understand the author is to understand the plays. And the more the actor understands, the better the audience can understand. We have no doubt that knowing about Arthur Miller's life explains the meaning of The Crucible and After the Fall. So, why is it different with Shakespeare? And also, there's a special resonance knowing that many of these stage events happened to real people, including to the author. So, it's that resonance that makes it very interesting as an actor.
Maria: You staged a number of Shakespeare productions in their original settings like Venice and Elsinore … How does a real or historical setting impact the way the plays are experienced ? … Yow is history important for our relationship to stories?
Ron: When we presented Henry V on what had been the battlefield of Agincourt, I played the role of Salisbury on that sacred ground, under which still remain the bodies of over 6,000 French and English soldiers to whose souls we publicly dedicated our performance. And I'll never forget during the chaotic battle scenes, running through the field shouting, sword in hand. And I looked around and I could sense what it was like for those poor human beings caught up in that bloody battle 600 years ago. I could identify with them. I could be with them and honor them. And so, it was a special moment that I'll never forget. And I think when audiences are there, it just makes that battle more real in the story, because here are people sitting at the edge of Agincourt battlefield, or on Bosworth field where we did Richard III, in Birnam Wood where Macbeth ruled. I think it’s a special experience for the audience, as well. When we do Macbeth in Birnam Wood in front of Birnam Oak, which is a thousand-year-old oak tree (it's the last remaining remnant of Birnam Wood as it was when King Macbeth ruled), and, in the play, characters talk about the owl and different creatures, and so forth. And so, people are sitting there, and we do it at night in the dark with electronic torches and things, and it's very magical. And you actually hear all these real animals around you making noises, sometimes on cue. And there is a special feeling that reminds you these plays were based on real stories and contain real truth. So it's not just a play. It's real. It was written to tell a real story. And there is an added importance to the plays when we realize that the stories are true or represent the truth that all humans experience everywhere. So, this is a message from the author. It's history. It's history upon history.
Maria: So thinking about how the novel’s style and details immerse us in its setting in your wonderfully vivid writing style, can you tell us how you developed the novel’s style and what it was like to write in this voice?
Ron: Since I've been speaking Shakespeare's words on stage for over 40 years, the vocabulary and syntax come naturally to me. So, hearing the voice of my narrator, Arthur Taverner, was easy. I wanted the book to be a fun read. So, I knew I needed the narrator who was a bit of a character, who was both fun and funny and could easily wander off into colorful tangents – a sort of Falstaff – a bit of a rogue, but a lovable one. And interestingly, I had Derek Jacobi in mind when I wrote Arthur Taverner. So, it was a thrill that he consented to narrate the audiobook. I saw him recently and it was just so nice to thank him again for doing it. And I have to admit, I've started my next novel and I miss Arthur's voice.
Maria: So after a career encountering Shakespeare in all of these ways, actor, director, now historical novelist, can you tell us why you love Shakespeare and why you think it's valuable for people to have an opportunity to encounter him, whether it's in schools, as students in the curriculum, or in theaters, or, as you said, other kinds of play spaces?
Ron: Shakespeare has expressed every single thought we've ever had, but done it more eloquently than any of us are able to speak it. He writes about passions that apply to us all: love, jealousy, grief, and so reading or seeing his works can help answer the questions we all struggle with. He helps us to find comfort and resolutions to our own problems. And I would argue – this may be controversial – I would argue that he was our first great humanist writer, first feminist writer, and a man who loved all races of people. I think Shakespeare shows us that because he's not prejudiced and he wants us to sympathize with Othello, Shylock – he doesn't want a pound of flesh. He wants the money back. And originally, he didn't want money for his loan. He was going to give him the loan for free. But Antonio says, “Well, if I see you, I'll spit on you again.” So, he says, “Okay, let’s do a pound of flesh.” But he wants his money back. And he only loses it when he hears that his daughter has been taken by the Christians and he hears that she sold his wife's ring. And if we realize that the Christians give away their rings at the end, that's telling us that the Christians in the play are the hypocrites and Shylock is the one who is to be admired.
Maria: Who valued [the ring] so much more.
Ron: Yes, that was his wife’s. And he didn't care about the money. And then Taming of the Shrew, she says at that final speech, “I'll put my hand under his boot.” And the only reason she says that is because she knows he won't press down on her hand … So, I think it's easy for Shakespeare to be misunderstood. And I tell my actors, “Look, it is a foreign language; approach it that way. Now, let’s tear it apart. Let’s find the keys that unlock the secrets to the language.” And once you do that, and you know what he's saying, then the audience has half a chance of understanding.
Maria: It is wonderful how clear it can all become in performance with great actors.
Ron: Well, that's it. And most people get turned off by Shakespeare because they started in junior high school, maybe with a teacher who doesn't fully understand it, or they see bad productions of it … And of course, that's going to turn you off. You're going to say, “I didn't understand any of it.” So, you need to see the Royal Shakespeare Company do it, or the Globe Theater do it. And luckily you could see those videos are now available. So, if you could see the best performers in the world doing it, then suddenly it becomes clear and accessible.
To read reviews, preview the audiobook narrated by Sir Derek Jacobi, and order the books, click here.